£299 for a live AppKey?

[Lopiner]

Could this be related to the recent resurgence of people laying 1p at odds of less than 1.50 and stealing pennies due to rounding? I hope so, as it would be great to tackle that.

By the way, they never refunded me on the losses i had because of that scam.
There are really smart guys looking at Betfair business, almost sure coming from financial markets, guys that understand the micro structure of the market and how exchanges work. Betfair isn't happy to provide only an exchange service and seeing costumers winning figures that compare to the company bottom line. They have introduce a lot of features that mimic what costumers do like the virtual liquidity, the liquidity pool (at least they are very amateur here and only do it in obvious markets, the guys from financial markets are still understanding sports and betting ), using intelligence from smart money to run the Sportsbook like Pinny, introducing barriers to entry like the API fee and the streaming (yes, the streaming). This is life unfortunately, nothing we can do about it.

The fee on the API is being laid down in a very unfair way. I know that Brokers are closing accounts on costumers that have low turnover so the fee is being applied in a discretionary way to users that are not interesting.

[JayBee]

Betfair informs me that the fee was introduced on May 10th 2016.

If you had not created a live key by that date then you have to pay the £299 fee to get one.

[AlgoTrader]

Betfair isn't happy to provide only an exchange service and seeing costumers winning figures that compare to the company bottom line.

Betfair earns some 5% of each winning result (some markets have higher percent, some customers have discounts). I never believe the exchange service makes no money.

[Lopiner]

Betfair earns some 5% of each winning result (some markets have higher percent, some customers have discounts). I never believe the exchange service makes no money.

I think that business makes money AlgoTrader, but there is a catch. If you only have suckers/dumb money/recreational bettors (whatever you wanna called them) on a exchange they will bet their money continuously and none of them has the edge to accumulate much of it (after commission) so they will bet, and each time they bet they erode 5% to betfair pockets, until they are left broke.
When you introduce smart money / sophisticated bettors they will only take the other side of the trade when they have expected value laying on the table so they will eventually accumulate much of the money and withdraw it or not put it to work. That's the rational for premium charges, so this kind of players also pay the marketing costs of attracting and retaining the dumb money because they reduce betfairs revenue.There is always the case that smart money provides liquidity and increases the number of matched transactions, and this offsets some of the loss in revenue.

Like any other company betfair wants to increase the bottom line and there are easy ways of doing it like the ones i mentioned. I think that betfair interests are not very well aligned with their winning costumers but that's how this game works.

[Grantay.]

API Usage fee

I think BF has been a little 'economical with the truth' regarding this fee.

Neil pointed out that :

"We have recently introduced an application process for NEW customers who'd like to use the Betfair API for betting...The application process does not affect ACTIVE customers who are currently using the API (personal customers or Vendors), nor will there be any retrospective charge applied to ACTIVE customers." My emphasis added.

I have a friend who went to use his app after some time off and found that his app key - created in 2014 - is now invalid.

In response to an email query on this he was told:

"Unfortunately your level of activity on the APi no longer meets the requirement for free access"

So a couple of impacts - 1) it is not only new customers that are affected 2) It IS being applied retrospectively to non-active customers.

We now need a definition of what does and does not constitute an "Active" customer.

Grantay

[davecon]

I think BF has been a little 'economical with the truth' regarding this fee.

Neil pointed out that :

"We have recently introduced an application process for NEW customers who'd like to use the Betfair API for betting...The application process does not affect ACTIVE customers who are currently using the API (personal customers or Vendors), nor will there be any retrospective charge applied to ACTIVE customers." My emphasis added.

I have a friend who went to use his app after some time off and found that his app key - created in 2014 - is now invalid.

In response to an email query on this he was told:

"Unfortunately your level of activity on the APi no longer meets the requirement for free access"

So a couple of impacts - 1) it is not only new customers that are affected 2) It IS being applied retrospectively to non-active customers.

We now need a definition of what does and does not constitute an "Active" customer.

Grantay

Funnily enough I was just thinking about going back to the API as ive been away for a while for personel reasons and wondered why I could not get a session token!
I have however just recently placed a £1k bet on the EU with these robbers on the Exchange and I am just now waiting for the cashout from the bet after the election - I have already withdrew the initial funds after the successful cashout and I will never give these Jokers another penny as long as I live! I have been a customer since 2004
SO YOU CAN STUFF YOUR API - YOUR FORUM AND YOUR POXY COMPANY
GOOD RIDDANCE!
Wish I could get at my winnings before the Election

[AlgoTrader]

I support the proposal to clarify what is active API customer, what is acceptable level of activity for free access and how much one should pay if he is too active customer.

There is nothing wrong to pay for high-end API usage patterns, we just should know what is acceptable for free access and how much cost upper API levels.

Please make the rules clear

[BetfairDeveloperProgram]

Hi All.

I support the proposal to clarify what is active API customer

An active customer is someone using the API for their personal betting activity.

If you have been active via the API in the past and have had your API key deactivated, please contact us so that we can review. If you aren't using the API for betting into the Exchange and are testing the API (whether your Live App Key is active or not) you should use the Delayed App Key, as advised in the API documentation. This also applies to new API customers who pay the activation fee.

Thanks

Neil

[geoffw123]

This gets worse

I thought this move was bad enough before I learnt that Betfair are now applying it retrospectively to people that don't use the API much. (I note the exact definition of an "active" user is still vague).

Betfair, what the heck are you trying to do, destroy your own Developer Community ? That's a really wise move isn't it? You are certainly going the right way about it.

I don't blame Davecon in the slightest for his sentiments on this topic. I am feeling very much the same way myself, even though I am not one of the people currently affected by it.

The official line for the introduction of the charge was

We have recently introduced an application process for new customers who'd like to use the Betfair API for betting. This is to prevent unlicensed commercial use of the API.

The ironic part of these latest shutdown revelations clearly demonstrates Betfair could easily shut down any unlicensed commercial users they wanted to, their stated reason is totally bogus.

Neil, could I ask a favour please, could you please post a name/email address for the relevant Senior Director who we could contact to make our feelings known on this issue.

Thanks Geoff

[BetfairDeveloperProgram]

Hi Geoff,

Thanks for your feedback.

The ironic part of these latest shutdown revelations clearly demonstrates Betfair could easily shut down any unlicensed commercial users they wanted to, their stated reason is totally bogus.

The previous situation enable unlicensed commercial due to open access to the API for anyone who didn’t want to follow the correct licensing process. Unfortunately, due to the number of App Keys created in the period when no application process was in place, it was necessary to deactivate dormant App Keys. As a result of this some genuine customers who were previously active (betting) via the API will have been affected. As I mentioned earlier, if any customers who were previously active had their App Key deactivated, they can contact us so that we can review accordingly.

Betfair, what the heck are you trying to do, destroy your own Developer Community ? That's a really wise move isn't it? You are certainly going the right way about it.

This is the opposite of what we are trying to achieve. Developers can still access the API for functional testing via the Delayed App Key which has always been provided for this purpose. We'll continue to support developers who use the API legitimately and for the purpose its provided and licensed for.

Neil, could I ask a favour please, could you please post a name/email address for the relevant Senior Director who we could contact to make our feelings known on this issue.

Please send any e-mails regarding this to bdp@betfair.com.

Kind Regards

Neil

[robohui]

Hi Geoff,

Thanks for your feedback.



The previous situation enable unlicensed commercial due to open access to the API for anyone who didn’t want to follow the correct licensing process. Unfortunately, due to the number of App Keys created in the period when no application process was in place, it was necessary to deactivate dormant App Keys. As a result of this some genuine customers who were previously active (betting) via the API will have been affected. As I mentioned earlier, if any customers who were previously active had their App Key deactivated, they can contact us so that we can review accordingly.



This is the opposite of what we are trying to achieve. Developers can still access the API for functional testing via the Delayed App Key which has always been provided for this purpose. We'll continue to support developers who use the API legitimately and for the purpose its provided and licensed for.




Please send any e-mails regarding this to bdp@betfair.com.

Kind Regards

Neil

Hello Neil.
I have written the e-mail to the specified address. I have explained that year didn't use API because of birth of the child. Also I have found out that I can't make rates via the API interface.
Have advised to pay me 300 francs that I am not able to afford as it is huge money for my country. You can help me with return of activity of a key? Otherwise, I will be forced to leave with Betfair.
Thank you that have found for my question the time.

[zeal]

Hello Niel!

I am cuiorus: Usually how many new (active) developers have you - per month? And how many started the last month?

I am pretty sure if I would be a newbie now, I just wouldn't. I'd just going somewhere else. Sorry! That's true. This freaked me out, so I have to think about some back-up plane right now. :/

[StefanBelo.]

Neil, could I ask a favour please, could you please post a name/email address for the relevant Senior Director who we could contact to make our feelings known on this issue.

Geoff, did you have email address to Senior Director, because I contacted Neil couple days ago and I did not receive any email yet.

I am on betfair from 2007, and paid betfair on betfair api fees (for old api) more than 22500 GBP. Well, they say I must pay for their support; I am betfair software vendor offering my trading app for betfair, I paid 300 GBP fee per month, and stopped paying this fee just couple months before official release of new api ng.

What I had got as promised support for my product? Well, quite opposite, they removed my bfexplorer bot sdk from offered products, and they did so again for new api ng, removing my posts here and not even mentioning my bot sdk in the list of api ng source code libraries.

[BetfairDeveloperProgram]

Hi Stefan,

I contacted Neil couple days ago and I did not receive any email yet.

We had several conversations by e-mail between us yesterday, but if there's a separate issue outstanding please let me know. BDP Support isn't available during weekends (or on bank holidays) as I mentioned yesterday when I responded to you.

I am on betfair from 2007, and paid betfair on betfair api fees (for old api) more than 22500 GBP. Well, they say I must pay for their support; I am betfair software vendor offering my trading app for betfair, I paid 300 GBP fee per month, and stopped paying this fee just couple months before official release of new api ng.

The previous API fees for Software Vendors and Personal (Full Access) customer's were £200 per month or £2000 per year.

Kind Regards

Neil

[AlgoTrader]

...removing my posts here and not even mentioning my bot sdk in the list of api ng source code libraries.

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